TJ, many others argue like you that the birth of Jesus occurred in some other season, such as in Autumn. Followers of this theory claim that the Judean winters were too cold for shepherds to be watching their flocks by night, as you point out. However, history proves otherwise, and there is historical and literary evidence that unblemished lambs for the Temple sacrifice were in fact kept in the fields near Bethlehem during the winter months. Maybe you should read the poem by T.S. Eliot titled "Journey of the Magi" for some literary insights. Hope you won't say it's worldly. Yes, the winters were very cold, but the shepherds braved the cold to mind the sheep.
The term Christmas appeared in Old English as early as 1038 AD as Cristes Maesse, and later as Cristes-messe in 1131 AD. It means "the Mass of Christ." This name was established by the Christian church to disconnect the holiday and its customs from its pagan origins. As one fourth century theologian penned, "We hold this day holy, not like the pagans because of the birth of the sun, but because of Him who made it."
Although it is true that many traditional Christmas customs find their origins in pagan practices, these ancient and forgotten associations are far removed from the hearts of Christian worshipers today at Christmastime. So much so, it seems a pointless concern. If the focus of Christmas is Jesus Christ and his gift of eternal life, then what harm can come from such a celebration? Moreover, Christian churches see Christmas as an occasion to spread the good news of the gospel at a time when many unbelievers pause to consider Christ.So the church did not "christianize" the feast of the winter soltice and the god of the sun, it offered christians an alternative to the pagan practices that were imposed on all by the Roman leaders at that time.
Secondly, the Magi did not dabble in witchcraft or magic, they were led by God to a spiritual encounter, a journey of rebirth and redemption. If you believe in the baptism of Jesus Christ, would you say that the dove that descended during His baptism was pagan or magic? God is a miraculous God who acts in ways that are foreign to human intelligence. The star that led the Magi to baby Jesus was God's way to lead them to the new-born-King.
TJ, I admire the passion in your argument, however, as much as I believe in Christmas, I want you to know that I'm not a religious apologist, neither do I align myself to any particular congregation; I'm quite liberal and free thinking. I believe that Jesus was conceived by the Virgin Mary after Angel Gabriel had descended on her, that He was born at some unknown time, that there is no event in the world as important as the birth of Christ and that I will always observe Christmas to remember God's greatest gift to mankind: the birth and eventual suffering and death for our sins of His son Jesus Christ.
Once more, many thanks and think about commemorating Christmas.
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Thank you again for your kind reply. It is not my purpose here to tell you or anyone else what you should do with regards to Christmas, but rather to just point out our reasoning for choosing not to celebrate the holiday, that we base it on what we sincerely believe the Bible to be teaching.
I find it unlikely that the shepherds were merely braving the cold, as if it was some temporary watch outdoors. The text says that they were actually "living out in the fields" at this time. Modern shepherds in the area do not stay outdoors during the winter season, and that's with the conveniences of waterproof clothing, portable heaters, etc.
Further, the evidence in the Bible itself argues against such a possibility. The ninth Hebrew month of Chislev overlapped much of December. The book of Ezra records when the people were gathered in this month to stand in the outer parts of the Temple in nearby Jerusalem. It mentions that they were "greatly distressed . . . because of the rain", causing them to protest, "it is the rainy season; so we cannot stand outside." (Ezra 10:9,13; compare Jer. 36:22) If these ones could not stand outside for a relatively short amount of time, are we really to believe that the shepherds were "living out in the fields" in such weather?
You said, "The star that led the Magi to baby Jesus was God's way to lead them to the new-born-King."
But where does the Bible actually say that God led them? My question was, if God led these ones to Jesus for the purpose of giving him gifts, why were they first led to King Herod, resulting in the attempted murder of Jesus and the tragedy of infanticide? The fact that these Magi were following a star is evidence of their being astrologers, is it not?
The Greek historian Herodotus described Magi as a Persian priestly class who specialized in astrology and casting of spells. These are practices that the Bible ties to the influence of demons. The Church Father Tertullian later wrote, "We know the mutual alliance of magic and astrology. The interpreters of the stars, then, were the first . . . to present [Jesus] 'gifts'". Even the very terms "magi" and "magic" are closely related.
As for the contention that modern practices are free of their pagan origins, is that really the case? Are there not any leftover superstitions and negative effects from such practices? If Christmas was originally a distinctly separate 'alternative' to the pagan festivals, how did the pagan traditions get into modern Christmas celebrations to begin with?
We may not agree on this, but I've appreciated hearing your views along with your willingness to hear what I've had to say. :) That being said, I've noticed that you've brought attention to the fact that Jesus died for our sins. I was wondering how you view his death as having accomplished that; that is to say, can you explain from the scriptures exactly how his death frees us from our sins?
Thanks again.
Thank you again for your kind reply. It is not my purpose here to tell you or anyone else what you should do with regards to Christmas, but rather to just point out our reasoning for choosing not to celebrate the holiday, that we base it on what we sincerely believe the Bible to be teaching.
I find it unlikely that the shepherds were merely braving the cold, as if it was some temporary watch outdoors. The text says that they were actually "living out in the fields" at this time. Modern shepherds in the area do not stay outdoors during the winter season, and that's with the conveniences of waterproof clothing, portable heaters, etc.
Further, the evidence in the Bible itself argues against such a possibility. The ninth Hebrew month of Chislev overlapped much of December. The book of Ezra records when the people were gathered in this month to stand in the outer parts of the Temple in nearby Jerusalem. It mentions that they were "greatly distressed . . . because of the rain", causing them to protest, "it is the rainy season; so we cannot stand outside." (Ezra 10:9,13; compare Jer. 36:22) If these ones could not stand outside for a relatively short amount of time, are we really to believe that the shepherds were "living out in the fields" in such weather?
You said, "The star that led the Magi to baby Jesus was God's way to lead them to the new-born-King."
But where does the Bible actually say that God led them? My question was, if God led these ones to Jesus for the purpose of giving him gifts, why were they first led to King Herod, resulting in the attempted murder of Jesus and the tragedy of infanticide? The fact that these Magi were following a star is evidence of their being astrologers, is it not?
The Greek historian Herodotus described Magi as a Persian priestly class who specialized in astrology and casting of spells. These are practices that the Bible ties to the influence of demons. The Church Father Tertullian later wrote, "We know the mutual alliance of magic and astrology. The interpreters of the stars, then, were the first . . . to present [Jesus] 'gifts'". Even the very terms "magi" and "magic" are closely related.
As for the contention that modern practices are free of their pagan origins, is that really the case? Are there not any leftover superstitions and negative effects from such practices? If Christmas was originally a distinctly separate 'alternative' to the pagan festivals, how did the pagan traditions get into modern Christmas celebrations to begin with?
We may not agree on this, but I've appreciated hearing your views along with your willingness to hear what I've had to say. :) That being said, I've noticed that you've brought attention to the fact that Jesus died for our sins. I was wondering how you view his death as having accomplished that; that is to say, can you explain from the scriptures exactly how his death frees us from our sins?
Thanks again.
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